[p2pu-webcraft] Challenges Feedback
Pippa Buchanan
Pippa.Buchanan at gmail.com
Wed Aug 31 09:30:42 UTC 2011
Jamie, John et al,
how are you planning to run the user testing? Face 2 Face and / or
asking for feedback via the web?
If you want F2F feedback I'd like to know how we could run a session
and share the responses to the community.
Best,
Pippa
On 31 August 2011 09:10, Jamie Curle <jamie.curle at jamiecurle.com> wrote:
> Hi Gunner,
>
> By the end of today the first challenges will be ready for consumption.
>
> I'll echo your sentiments about the first challenge and I spoke with John about this last night.
>
> What you'll see as a response to this will be the challenges reduced in scope to reduce time per taken per challenge and also to build momentum.
>
> However, we don't know anything until we know something. In order to know something, we need to get people looking at the challenges asap and they'll be ready for that by tomorrow.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jamie.
>
>
> On 31 Aug 2011, at 07:34, Allen Gunn wrote:
>
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>> Hey friends,
>>
>> Super enjoying this thread, Laura thanks for kicking this off. And great
>> to job to all the folks that are fleshing these critters out, really
>> cool to see substantial stuff there :^)
>>
>> I'll second Laura's statement about not being uber familiar with P2PU
>> norms, but in addition to great comments already made:
>>
>> * I think the size of the different challenges varies a good bit on
>> first look. Challenge 1 seems like at least 2 challenges to me (get set
>> up, do Hello World), and other challenges may be of arbitrarily large
>> size. Apologies if I've missed this in earlier threads, but what order
>> of magnitude of time is anticipated to be required per challenge?
>>
>> * Part of why I ask is IMO learning should always start with an easy
>> win/near-term outcome, and Challenge 1 is a bigger thing. It's substantial.
>>
>> * My personal opinion is the sequential learning units should always
>> hold together well as a story. e.g.
>>
>> 1) First you'll get your environment set up to do some webmaking
>> 2) Then you'll do the simplest of webmaking tasks, "Hello world"
>> 3) Next you'll...
>>
>> While it's arguably pedestrian to explicitly say all this, I think it's
>> the kind of stuff that a) makes the material more accessible at first
>> glance, and b) gives learners initial scaffolding to hang their
>> discoveries on.
>>
>> I also think such articulations can benefit the challenge-to-challenge
>> continuity, though I realize modularity is a goal.
>>
>> * By extension, I think the most engaging materials are those that
>> clearly convey their benefit to the user/learner. Each overview section
>> might have explicit "after this challenge" language (aka "The Payoff" or
>> "Victory") that describes skill and knowledge gain in non-technical
>> terms, "you will be able to " e.g. "build simple web pages", "add design
>> features to an existing page", "integrate video into a page', "add
>> interactivity to a page"...
>>
>> * John and Philipp will be shocked to hear me say this, but I think we
>> should be getting uninitiated target users looking at these now, not
>> after they've been polished/finished. More P2P-based feedback before
>> format/structure/template decisions get cemented!
>>
>> OK those are my late night thoughts, looking forward to the next round!
>>
>> thanks & peace,
>> gunner
>>
>>
>> On 08/30/2011 10:06 AM, Philipp Schmidt wrote:
>>> I believe the challenges still live at webmaking101.p2pu.org
>>> <http://webmaking101.p2pu.org> at the moment. Can't be edited by others.
>>>
>>> P
>>>
>>> On 30 August 2011 12:57, Alison Cole <alison at p2pu.org
>>> <mailto:alison at p2pu.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If Laura joins the course as a participant she can edit all tasks
>>> that Jamie has marked collaborative/editable.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Laura Hilliger
>>> <laura at zythepsary.com <mailto:laura at zythepsary.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Just wanted to give some feedback on the challenges. First off,
>>> I applaud all those involved. You guys rock.
>>>
>>> I'd like to give some feedback on http://webmaking101.p2pu.org/
>>> as a whole, from the perspective of someone not involved. I get
>>> that it's a pilot program, I have no idea what your timeline is
>>> and I don't know what all you're already discussing. I'm also
>>> aware that it's a draft. If my feedback is irrelevant than
>>> please forgive me for wasting your time! That said, I have
>>> perused a bunch of your documentation.
>>>
>>> 1. On the Introduction page - text says "The only assumption
>>> made is that the learner can use the web..." Really, what does
>>> this mean "use the web"? I'm a little confused on the target
>>> audience. Through the documentation that I find on Webmaking
>>> 101, the target audience is very loosely defined. In fact, the
>>> definition I find for SoW is "general audience" and "targeted
>>> niche audience" (learning web development from the ground up and
>>> niche topics for developers). Can you be more specific about the
>>> target audience? Who are you targeting, twenty-somethings that
>>> don't write HTML yet? There's a difference between people who
>>> use the web for email, facebook and amazon and people who know
>>> how to USE the web.
>>>
>>> The reason i point this out is because there are basics to web
>>> usage that aren't approached on SoW and I wonder if there should
>>> be a WebUsage 101course with challenges that approach those
>>> basics. For example, collaborative document editing - something
>>> we all do, but is MAGIC to people who aren't web "users". You'd
>>> be surprised how many people out there don't actually know that
>>> they can share documents without attaching a .doc to an email.
>>> Or searching, lots of people don't actually know how to find
>>> things on the web, believe it or not. Or online photos...This is
>>> digital divide stuff, I guess, but I always thought that SoW
>>> should think about approaching these basics, but I don't know if
>>> that was ever in discussion.
>>>
>>> These are much bigger questions that apply to a lot of projects
>>> out there, just something to think about.
>>>
>>> 2. "The challenges are designed to be followed in a serial
>>> manner..." How will you integrate the challenges to
>>> corresponding courses? I'm curious as to how this will be
>>> implemented in SoW and wonder if anyone wants to tell us about
>>> that. Where are the challenges going to be accessible? What does
>>> one have to complete to start doing the challenges? Are the
>>> challenges only attached to the Webmaking 101 course, or will
>>> they be accessible through the CSS or HTML5 courses as well?
>>>
>>> 3. There are a lot, a lot of typos. I'd be happy to do some
>>> editing if you point me to an editable document.
>>>
>>> 4. On the 2nd challenge, 1st task - "12 Rules for Choosing the
>>> Right Domain" is directed at users in the USA. European users
>>> have a very different take on some of these points. Just an FYI.
>>> 3rd Task - give recommendations for FLOSS editors!
>>>
>>> 5. Is this how the challenges are to be ordered? If so, you
>>> might want to get people visualizing their pages BEFORE they
>>> start programming, or is the intention that they learn through
>>> programming the earlier challenges and then redo the challenges
>>> when creating their site?
>>>
>>> 6. What about image editing, webfonts and open licensed content?
>>>
>>> Ok, that's enough for now. Don't know if any of it is useful,
>>> but those are the thoughts that were on the top of my head.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>> Laura
>>>
>>>
>>> Laura F. Hilliger
>>> laura at zythepsary.com <mailto:laura at zythepsary.com>
>>> www.zythepsary.com <http://www.zythepsary.com/>
>>> @epilepticrabbit <http://twitter.com/#%21/epilepticrabbit>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Alison
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> - --
>>
>> Allen Gunn
>> Executive Director, Aspiration
>> +1.415.216.7252
>> www.aspirationtech.org
>>
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