[p2pu-dev] Two way communication for notifications and messaging

Mon Jun 4 20:13:46 UTC 2012

How does this handle authorisation though? I see they do have docs but
I'm not following... Would it be related to the email account the user
signed up on the site with?
http://docs.cloudmailin.com/features/callbacks/#authorization-callbacks

They even have a Django app all ready:
https://github.com/CloudMailin/django-cloudmailin      ...tempting
indeed! :)

cheers,
José

On 4 June 2012 18:51, Jessy Kate Schingler <jessy at jessykate.com> wrote:
> that's cool dirk i've not heard of cloudmailin!
>
> looking at their site it seems like a pretty neat service in general, but
> i;m not sure how much it would buy us in terms of reducing the work we have
> to do on the server side. doing it ourselves i guess we would write a script
> that parses incoming mails in the postfix maildir or exim equivalent (which
> cloudmailin would take care of). but we still have to disambiguate responses
> into specific accounts/discussion threads/models.
>
> anyway, my sense is that it wouldn't save us a ton of effort, and would
> increase dependencies on external services, but curious what others think.
>
> other thoughts?
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Stian Håklev <shaklev at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> To get a sense of the traffic levels, how many messages are posted every
>> month on P2PU right now? (Of course, we'd then have to estimate roughly what
>> percentage of those messages are likely to be posted through email rather
>> than online).
>>
>> Stian
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Dirk Uys <dirk at p2pu.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Googling around a bit I found http://www.cloudmailin.com/
>>>
>>> They turn your email into an http post to your website. I like the
>>> idea, it keeps the email stuff separate from the messaging logic.
>>>
>>> They also have special pricing options for non-profits.
>>>
>>> The alternative would be to setup our own mail server and use some
>>> python bindings for mail and a celery task. There's poplib and imaplib
>>> for python.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> d
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 1:02 AM, Stian Håklev <shaklev at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > A lot of emails disregard anything after a + in an email user name,
>>> > like
>>> > GMail which will send all mail to shaklev+test at gmail.com to
>>> > shaklev at gmail.com. So if the server receives all mail to reply+dfsfd to
>>> > the
>>> > reply address, and the reply address is able to strip this out of the
>>> > header, and then know where to put it, based on the unique ID, we
>>> > should be
>>> > good to go.
>>> >
>>> > I am sure there are services and APIs out there for doing this as well,
>>> > but
>>> > they are probably expensive for the kind of volume (although we'd have
>>> > a lot
>>> > less replies by email than we have email notifications).
>>> >
>>> > For such a common problem, you'd think there'd be a Django module or at
>>> > least a Python implementation out there somewhere as well. But I don't
>>> > know
>>> > how much of the challenge is in the Lernanta codebase, and how much is
>>> > the
>>> > email server etc.
>>> >
>>> > Stian
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Jessy Kate Schingler
>>> > <jessy at jessykate.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> really cool dirk.
>>> >>
>>> >> i dont have a particular mail server recommendation though have
>>> >> personally
>>> >> done more with postfix than exim.
>>> >>
>>> >> i just did a quick search for "comments reply by email" and noticed
>>> >> that
>>> >> wordpress implemented this last year. obviously they're php but it
>>> >> might be
>>> >> interested to take a look at the WP codebase to see how they
>>> >> implemented it.
>>> >>
>>> >> looking at facebook notifications, they use emails structured like so:
>>> >> update+ohlp1evf at facebookmail.com
>>> >>
>>> >> so i guess update@ is their updates email address and the hash let's
>>> >> them
>>> >> disambiguate to a specific conversation thread via some kind of script
>>> >> internally. i think this would be a fun/interesting thing to
>>> >> contribute to
>>> >> if it gets going, but know my time will be somewhat limited this
>>> >> summer with
>>> >> internship work.
>>> >>
>>> >> jessy
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Dirk Uys <dirk at p2pu.org> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks, having a look at ack atm!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Jos Flores <josmasflores at gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>> > Dirk, thanks for the walkthrough, it does make sense.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > I've noticed you recommend grep... have you tried ack? it's really
>>> >>> > cool!
>>> >>> > I use grep very little since I discovered it :)
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > cheers,
>>> >>> > José
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > On 1 June 2012 09:57, Dirk Uys <dirk at p2pu.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> No problem. At the moment the notification code isn't in one place
>>> >>> >> (something we can work on).
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> I'm going to start explaining from the point where the email is
>>> >>> >> sent
>>> >>> >> to the user and work my way backwards to where notifications are
>>> >>> >> generated. Please tell me if this ends up being confusing
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Emails are sent to a user by calling
>>> >>> >> django.contrib.auth.models.User.email_user
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> (https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/auth/#django.contrib.auth.models.User.email_user)
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> email_user() is called by an async celery task SendNotification
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> (https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/users/tasks.py#L25)
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> SendNotification tasks can be created in multiple places:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> There is a signal
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> (https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/content/models.py#L245)
>>> >>> >> that fires when tasks are created or modified. This signal then
>>> >>> >> calls
>>> >>> >> a function called send_email_notification
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> (https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/content/models.py#L213)
>>> >>> >> that creates SendNotifications tasks.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Another example is sent_creation_notification
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> (https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/projects/models.py#L270)
>>> >>> >> thats part of projects.models.Project. This function is called
>>> >>> >> from
>>> >>> >> the create function
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> (https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/projects/models.py#L270/)
>>> >>> >> that in turn gets called in the create view
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> (https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/projects/views.py#L189)
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> I'm not sure at what other places SendNotification tasks are
>>> >>> >> created,
>>> >>> >> but you can grep to code base to find out. grep -r
>>> >>> >> SendNotification *
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> The fact that the places where SendNotification tasks are created
>>> >>> >> are
>>> >>> >> spread all over isn't a problem in itself, but at the moment
>>> >>> >> checks
>>> >>> >> for notification preference also seem spread out a bit. For
>>> >>> >> example
>>> >>> >> task updates
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> (https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/content/models.py#L234).
>>> >>> >> It also makes it difficult to implement batching of notifications.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Than being said, I think that notification may be one of the first
>>> >>> >> parts of Lernanta that we can put into a separate module without
>>> >>> >> too
>>> >>> >> much surgery on the whole code base.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Cheers
>>> >>> >> d
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jos Flores
>>> >>> >> <josmasflores at gmail.com>
>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>> >>> >>> Hey Dirk,
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> I know nothing about the topic but curious about where the
>>> >>> >>> notifications code is and how it works... could you point me
>>> >>> >>> towards
>>> >>> >>> it?
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> cheers,
>>> >>> >>> José
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> On 1 June 2012 09:01, Dirk Uys <dirk at p2pu.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >>>> Hi
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> I've been thinking a little bit about two way interaction for
>>> >>> >>>> messaging and notifications. On the software side of things I
>>> >>> >>>> don't
>>> >>> >>>> foresee too much trouble, but on the config side of things I'm a
>>> >>> >>>> little uncertain.
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> Our primary MX record points to google, then @lists.p2pu.org
>>> >>> >>>> points
>>> >>> >>>> to
>>> >>> >>>> the service we use for the mailing list. I guess we could use
>>> >>> >>>> something like @site.p2pu.org? I see that github uses
>>> >>> >>>> @reply.github.com with something that looks like a one time
>>> >>> >>>> token.
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> Is there any specific mail server that anyone would suggest? I
>>> >>> >>>> have
>>> >>> >>>> always skipped the talk about mail servers when reading linux
>>> >>> >>>> sysadmin
>>> >>> >>>> docs :)
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> Cheers
>>> >>> >>>> d
>>> >>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>>> ps. I apologize for the thinking as I type email
>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>> >>>> p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>>> >>> >>>> http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
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>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Jessy
>>> >> http://jessykate.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
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>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Jessy
> http://jessykate.com
>
>
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