[p2pu-webcraft] Challenges Feedback

Pippa Buchanan Pippa.Buchanan at gmail.com
Wed Aug 31 09:30:42 UTC 2011

Jamie, John et al,

how are you planning to run the user testing? Face 2 Face and / or
asking for feedback via the web?

If you want F2F feedback I'd like to know how we could run a session
and share the responses to the community.



On 31 August 2011 09:10, Jamie Curle <jamie.curle at jamiecurle.com> wrote:
> Hi Gunner,
> By the end of today the first challenges will be ready for consumption.
> I'll echo your sentiments about the first challenge  and I spoke with John about this last night.
> What you'll see as a response to this will be the challenges reduced in scope to reduce time per taken per challenge and also to build momentum.
> However,  we don't know anything until we know something. In order to know something, we need to get people looking at the challenges asap and they'll be ready for that by tomorrow.
> Cheers,
> Jamie.
> On 31 Aug 2011, at 07:34, Allen Gunn wrote:
>> Hash: SHA1
>> Hey friends,
>> Super enjoying this thread, Laura thanks for kicking this off. And great
>> to job to all the folks that are fleshing these critters out, really
>> cool to see substantial stuff there :^)
>> I'll second Laura's statement about not being uber familiar with P2PU
>> norms, but in addition to great comments already made:
>> * I think the size of the different challenges varies a good bit on
>> first look. Challenge 1 seems like at least 2 challenges to me (get set
>> up, do Hello World), and other challenges may be of arbitrarily large
>> size. Apologies if I've missed this in earlier threads, but what order
>> of magnitude of time is anticipated to be required per challenge?
>> * Part of why I ask is IMO learning should always start with an easy
>> win/near-term outcome, and Challenge 1 is a bigger thing. It's substantial.
>> * My personal opinion is the sequential learning units should always
>> hold together well as a story. e.g.
>> 1) First you'll get your environment set up to do some webmaking
>> 2) Then you'll do the simplest of webmaking tasks, "Hello world"
>> 3) Next you'll...
>> While it's arguably pedestrian to explicitly say all this, I think it's
>> the kind of stuff that a) makes the material more accessible at first
>> glance, and b) gives learners initial scaffolding to hang their
>> discoveries on.
>> I also think such articulations can benefit the challenge-to-challenge
>> continuity, though I realize modularity is a goal.
>> * By extension, I think the most engaging materials are those that
>> clearly convey their benefit to the user/learner. Each overview section
>> might have explicit "after this challenge" language (aka "The Payoff" or
>> "Victory") that describes skill and knowledge gain in non-technical
>> terms, "you will be able to " e.g. "build simple web pages", "add design
>> features to an existing page", "integrate video into a page', "add
>> interactivity to a page"...
>> * John and Philipp will be shocked to hear me say this, but I think we
>> should be getting uninitiated target users looking at these now, not
>> after they've been polished/finished. More P2P-based feedback before
>> format/structure/template decisions get cemented!
>> OK those are my late night thoughts, looking forward to the next round!
>> thanks & peace,
>> gunner
>> On 08/30/2011 10:06 AM, Philipp Schmidt wrote:
>>> I believe the challenges still live at webmaking101.p2pu.org
>>> <http://webmaking101.p2pu.org> at the moment. Can't be edited by others.
>>> P
>>> On 30 August 2011 12:57, Alison Cole <alison at p2pu.org
>>> <mailto:alison at p2pu.org>> wrote:
>>>    If Laura joins the course as a participant she can edit all tasks
>>>    that Jamie has marked collaborative/editable.
>>>    On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Laura Hilliger
>>>    <laura at zythepsary.com <mailto:laura at zythepsary.com>> wrote:
>>>        Hi everyone,
>>>        Just wanted to give some feedback on the challenges. First off,
>>>        I applaud all those involved. You guys rock.
>>>        I'd like to give some feedback on http://webmaking101.p2pu.org/
>>>        as a whole, from the perspective of someone not involved. I get
>>>        that it's a pilot program, I have no idea what your timeline is
>>>        and I don't know what all you're already discussing. I'm also
>>>        aware that it's a draft. If my feedback is irrelevant than
>>>        please forgive me for wasting your time! That said, I have
>>>        perused a bunch of your documentation.
>>>        1. On the Introduction page - text says "The only assumption
>>>        made is that the learner can use the web..." Really, what does
>>>        this mean "use the web"? I'm a little confused on the target
>>>        audience. Through the documentation that I find on Webmaking
>>>        101, the target audience is very loosely defined. In fact, the
>>>        definition I find for SoW is "general audience" and "targeted
>>>        niche audience" (learning web development from the ground up and
>>>        niche topics for developers). Can you be more specific about the
>>>        target audience? Who are you targeting, twenty-somethings that
>>>        don't write HTML yet? There's a difference between people who
>>>        use the web for email, facebook and amazon and people who know
>>>        how to USE the web.
>>>        The reason i point this out is because there are basics to web
>>>        usage that aren't approached on SoW and I wonder if there should
>>>        be a WebUsage 101course with challenges that approach those
>>>        basics. For example, collaborative document editing - something
>>>        we all do, but is MAGIC to people who aren't web "users". You'd
>>>        be surprised how many people out there don't actually know that
>>>        they can share documents without attaching a .doc to an email.
>>>        Or searching, lots of people don't actually know how to find
>>>        things on the web, believe it or not. Or online photos...This is
>>>        digital divide stuff, I guess, but I always thought that SoW
>>>        should think about approaching these basics, but I don't know if
>>>        that was ever in discussion.
>>>        These are much bigger questions that apply to a lot of projects
>>>        out there, just something to think about.
>>>        2. "The challenges are designed to be followed in a serial
>>>        manner..." How will you integrate the challenges to
>>>        corresponding courses? I'm curious as to how this will be
>>>        implemented in SoW and wonder if anyone wants to tell us about
>>>        that. Where are the challenges going to be accessible? What does
>>>        one have to complete to start doing the challenges? Are the
>>>        challenges only attached to the Webmaking 101 course, or will
>>>        they be accessible through the CSS or HTML5 courses as well?
>>>        3. There are a lot, a lot of typos. I'd be happy to do some
>>>        editing if you point me to an editable document.
>>>        4. On the 2nd challenge, 1st task - "12 Rules for Choosing the
>>>        Right Domain" is directed at users in the USA. European users
>>>        have a very different take on some of these points. Just an FYI.
>>>        3rd Task - give recommendations for FLOSS editors!
>>>        5. Is this how the challenges are to be ordered? If so, you
>>>        might want to get people visualizing their pages BEFORE they
>>>        start programming, or is the intention that they learn through
>>>        programming the earlier challenges and then redo the challenges
>>>        when creating their site?
>>>        6. What about image editing, webfonts and open licensed content?
>>>        Ok, that's enough for now. Don't know if any of it is useful,
>>>        but those are the thoughts that were on the top of my head.
>>>        Cheers!
>>>        Laura
>>>        Laura F. Hilliger
>>>        laura at zythepsary.com <mailto:laura at zythepsary.com>
>>>        www.zythepsary.com <http://www.zythepsary.com/>
>>>        @epilepticrabbit <http://twitter.com/#%21/epilepticrabbit>
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>>>    Alison
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>> - --
>> Allen Gunn
>> Executive Director, Aspiration
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>> www.aspirationtech.org
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