[p2pu-dev] Two way communication for notifications and messaging

Mon Jun 4 21:17:17 UTC 2012

If not, there might be many who signed up to FB with one address (say their
university address) which is now permanently forwarded to another e-mail
(say a GMail account) who would not be able to respond, so maybe they just
rely on the token itself.

Anyway sender e-mail is very easy to spoof so checking that might not add
much real security, while frustrating many users.

Stian

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Jessy Kate Schingler <jessy at jessykate.com>wrote:

> i guess the hash in the email address would function as a kind of
> authentication token, probably combined with the sender email address which
> would have to match an email associated with the account.
>
> worth trying: someone try forwarding a FB notification email to a friend,
> and see if that friend is able to reply-to-post with a different email
> using :).
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Jos Flores <josmasflores at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Stian, I understand the workflow but my question is: where do
>> cloudmailin come in in that workflow? as far as I know mail now is
>> handled by sendgrid; does that have to change? who creates the token?
>> cloudmailin? lernanta in the codebase?
>> The example they give is that it is just like a POST in a form in your
>> site: in lernanta to do a POST in a reply form you have to be
>> authenticated, so it's not a straight forward, open POST request.
>>
>> cheers,
>> José
>>
>> On 4 June 2012 21:17, Stian Håklev <shaklev at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Well, I guess every single message is sent out with a unique token, like
>> >
>> > reply-34093049304 at p2pu.org
>> >
>> > the combination of this token, and the sender e-mail address should be
>> > enough authentication?
>> >
>> > Or do you mean how do we know that the HTTP posts from cloudmailin
>> actually
>> > come from cloudmailin?
>> >
>> > Apart from the possible vicissitudes of handling email ourselves (which
>> I
>> > have no experience with, but it always seems more complex than what
>> you'd
>> > think - although perhaps that's more for sending email than for
>> receiving),
>> > it really doesn't seem all that difficult to me.
>> >
>> > For each notification e-mail, generate a unique ID, and store that ID
>> and
>> > the e-mail addresses that received the notification in a database. When
>> you
>> > receive a reply, look up the ID, check that e-mail match, and look up
>> where
>> > to append the reply.
>> >
>> > Stian
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Jos Flores <josmasflores at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> How does this handle authorisation though? I see they do have docs but
>> >> I'm not following... Would it be related to the email account the user
>> >> signed up on the site with?
>> >>
>> http://docs.cloudmailin.com/features/callbacks/#authorization-callbacks
>> >>
>> >> They even have a Django app all ready:
>> >> https://github.com/CloudMailin/django-cloudmailin      ...tempting
>> >> indeed! :)
>> >>
>> >> cheers,
>> >> José
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 4 June 2012 18:51, Jessy Kate Schingler <jessy at jessykate.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > that's cool dirk i've not heard of cloudmailin!
>> >> >
>> >> > looking at their site it seems like a pretty neat service in general,
>> >> > but
>> >> > i;m not sure how much it would buy us in terms of reducing the work
>> we
>> >> > have
>> >> > to do on the server side. doing it ourselves i guess we would write a
>> >> > script
>> >> > that parses incoming mails in the postfix maildir or exim equivalent
>> >> > (which
>> >> > cloudmailin would take care of). but we still have to disambiguate
>> >> > responses
>> >> > into specific accounts/discussion threads/models.
>> >> >
>> >> > anyway, my sense is that it wouldn't save us a ton of effort, and
>> would
>> >> > increase dependencies on external services, but curious what others
>> >> > think.
>> >> >
>> >> > other thoughts?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Stian Håklev <shaklev at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> To get a sense of the traffic levels, how many messages are posted
>> >> >> every
>> >> >> month on P2PU right now? (Of course, we'd then have to estimate
>> roughly
>> >> >> what
>> >> >> percentage of those messages are likely to be posted through email
>> >> >> rather
>> >> >> than online).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Stian
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Dirk Uys <dirk at p2pu.org> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Googling around a bit I found http://www.cloudmailin.com/
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> They turn your email into an http post to your website. I like the
>> >> >>> idea, it keeps the email stuff separate from the messaging logic.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> They also have special pricing options for non-profits.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> The alternative would be to setup our own mail server and use some
>> >> >>> python bindings for mail and a celery task. There's poplib and
>> imaplib
>> >> >>> for python.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Any thoughts
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Cheers
>> >> >>> d
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 1:02 AM, Stian Håklev <shaklev at gmail.com>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>> > A lot of emails disregard anything after a + in an email user
>> name,
>> >> >>> > like
>> >> >>> > GMail which will send all mail to shaklev+test at gmail.com to
>> >> >>> > shaklev at gmail.com. So if the server receives all mail to
>> reply+dfsfd
>> >> >>> > to
>> >> >>> > the
>> >> >>> > reply address, and the reply address is able to strip this out of
>> >> >>> > the
>> >> >>> > header, and then know where to put it, based on the unique ID, we
>> >> >>> > should be
>> >> >>> > good to go.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > I am sure there are services and APIs out there for doing this as
>> >> >>> > well,
>> >> >>> > but
>> >> >>> > they are probably expensive for the kind of volume (although we'd
>> >> >>> > have
>> >> >>> > a lot
>> >> >>> > less replies by email than we have email notifications).
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > For such a common problem, you'd think there'd be a Django
>> module or
>> >> >>> > at
>> >> >>> > least a Python implementation out there somewhere as well. But I
>> >> >>> > don't
>> >> >>> > know
>> >> >>> > how much of the challenge is in the Lernanta codebase, and how
>> much
>> >> >>> > is
>> >> >>> > the
>> >> >>> > email server etc.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Stian
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Jessy Kate Schingler
>> >> >>> > <jessy at jessykate.com>
>> >> >>> > wrote:
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> really cool dirk.
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> i dont have a particular mail server recommendation though have
>> >> >>> >> personally
>> >> >>> >> done more with postfix than exim.
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> i just did a quick search for "comments reply by email" and
>> noticed
>> >> >>> >> that
>> >> >>> >> wordpress implemented this last year. obviously they're php but
>> it
>> >> >>> >> might be
>> >> >>> >> interested to take a look at the WP codebase to see how they
>> >> >>> >> implemented it.
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> looking at facebook notifications, they use emails structured
>> like
>> >> >>> >> so:
>> >> >>> >> update+ohlp1evf at facebookmail.com
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> so i guess update@ is their updates email address and the hash
>> >> >>> >> let's
>> >> >>> >> them
>> >> >>> >> disambiguate to a specific conversation thread via some kind of
>> >> >>> >> script
>> >> >>> >> internally. i think this would be a fun/interesting thing to
>> >> >>> >> contribute to
>> >> >>> >> if it gets going, but know my time will be somewhat limited this
>> >> >>> >> summer with
>> >> >>> >> internship work.
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> jessy
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Dirk Uys <dirk at p2pu.org> wrote:
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> Thanks, having a look at ack atm!
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Jos Flores
>> >> >>> >>> <josmasflores at gmail.com>
>> >> >>> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>> >>> > Dirk, thanks for the walkthrough, it does make sense.
>> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >>> >>> > I've noticed you recommend grep... have you tried ack? it's
>> >> >>> >>> > really
>> >> >>> >>> > cool!
>> >> >>> >>> > I use grep very little since I discovered it :)
>> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >>> >>> > cheers,
>> >> >>> >>> > José
>> >> >>> >>> >
>> >> >>> >>> > On 1 June 2012 09:57, Dirk Uys <dirk at p2pu.org> wrote:
>> >> >>> >>> >> No problem. At the moment the notification code isn't in one
>> >> >>> >>> >> place
>> >> >>> >>> >> (something we can work on).
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> I'm going to start explaining from the point where the
>> email is
>> >> >>> >>> >> sent
>> >> >>> >>> >> to the user and work my way backwards to where notifications
>> >> >>> >>> >> are
>> >> >>> >>> >> generated. Please tell me if this ends up being confusing
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> Emails are sent to a user by calling
>> >> >>> >>> >> django.contrib.auth.models.User.email_user
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> (
>> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/auth/#django.contrib.auth.models.User.email_user
>> )
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> email_user() is called by an async celery task
>> SendNotification
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> (
>> https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/users/tasks.py#L25
>> )
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> SendNotification tasks can be created in multiple places:
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> There is a signal
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> (
>> https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/content/models.py#L245
>> )
>> >> >>> >>> >> that fires when tasks are created or modified. This signal
>> then
>> >> >>> >>> >> calls
>> >> >>> >>> >> a function called send_email_notification
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> (
>> https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/content/models.py#L213
>> )
>> >> >>> >>> >> that creates SendNotifications tasks.
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> Another example is sent_creation_notification
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> (
>> https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/projects/models.py#L270
>> )
>> >> >>> >>> >> thats part of projects.models.Project. This function is
>> called
>> >> >>> >>> >> from
>> >> >>> >>> >> the create function
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> (
>> https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/projects/models.py#L270/
>> )
>> >> >>> >>> >> that in turn gets called in the create view
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> (
>> https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/projects/views.py#L189
>> )
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> I'm not sure at what other places SendNotification tasks are
>> >> >>> >>> >> created,
>> >> >>> >>> >> but you can grep to code base to find out. grep -r
>> >> >>> >>> >> SendNotification *
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> The fact that the places where SendNotification tasks are
>> >> >>> >>> >> created
>> >> >>> >>> >> are
>> >> >>> >>> >> spread all over isn't a problem in itself, but at the moment
>> >> >>> >>> >> checks
>> >> >>> >>> >> for notification preference also seem spread out a bit. For
>> >> >>> >>> >> example
>> >> >>> >>> >> task updates
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> (
>> https://github.com/p2pu/lernanta/blob/master/lernanta/apps/content/models.py#L234
>> ).
>> >> >>> >>> >> It also makes it difficult to implement batching of
>> >> >>> >>> >> notifications.
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> Than being said, I think that notification may be one of the
>> >> >>> >>> >> first
>> >> >>> >>> >> parts of Lernanta that we can put into a separate module
>> >> >>> >>> >> without
>> >> >>> >>> >> too
>> >> >>> >>> >> much surgery on the whole code base.
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> Cheers
>> >> >>> >>> >> d
>> >> >>> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> >> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Jos Flores
>> >> >>> >>> >> <josmasflores at gmail.com>
>> >> >>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >> >>> >>> >>> Hey Dirk,
>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> >>> I know nothing about the topic but curious about where the
>> >> >>> >>> >>> notifications code is and how it works... could you point
>> me
>> >> >>> >>> >>> towards
>> >> >>> >>> >>> it?
>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> >>> cheers,
>> >> >>> >>> >>> José
>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> >>> On 1 June 2012 09:01, Dirk Uys <dirk at p2pu.org> wrote:
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> Hi
>> >> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> I've been thinking a little bit about two way interaction
>> for
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> messaging and notifications. On the software side of
>> things I
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> don't
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> foresee too much trouble, but on the config side of things
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> I'm a
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> little uncertain.
>> >> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> Our primary MX record points to google, then @
>> lists.p2pu.org
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> points
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> to
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> the service we use for the mailing list. I guess we could
>> use
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> something like @site.p2pu.org? I see that github uses
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> @reply.github.com with something that looks like a one
>> time
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> token.
>> >> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> Is there any specific mail server that anyone would
>> suggest?
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> I
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> have
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> always skipped the talk about mail servers when reading
>> linux
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> sysadmin
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> docs :)
>> >> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> Cheers
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> d
>> >> >>> >>> >>>>
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> ps. I apologize for the thinking as I type email
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> p2pu-dev mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> >> >>> >>> >>>> http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> >>> >>> p2pu-dev mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> >>> p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> >> >>> >>> >>> http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> >>> >> p2pu-dev mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> >> p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> >> >>> >>> >> http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> >>> > p2pu-dev mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> > p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> >> >>> >>> > http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> >>> p2pu-dev mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> >> >>> >>> http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> --
>> >> >>> >> Jessy
>> >> >>> >> http://jessykate.com
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> >> p2pu-dev mailing list
>> >> >>> >> p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> >> >>> >> http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > --
>> >> >>> > http://reganmian.net/blog -- Random Stuff that Matters
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> > p2pu-dev mailing list
>> >> >>> > p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> >> >>> > http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> p2pu-dev mailing list
>> >> >>> p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> >> >>> http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> http://reganmian.net/blog -- Random Stuff that Matters
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> p2pu-dev mailing list
>> >> >> p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> >> >> http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Jessy
>> >> > http://jessykate.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > p2pu-dev mailing list
>> >> > p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> >> > http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> p2pu-dev mailing list
>> >> p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> >> http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > http://reganmian.net/blog -- Random Stuff that Matters
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > p2pu-dev mailing list
>> > p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> > http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> p2pu-dev mailing list
>> p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
>> http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jessy
> http://jessykate.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> p2pu-dev mailing list
> p2pu-dev at lists.p2pu.org
> http://lists.p2pu.org/mailman/listinfo/p2pu-dev
>
>

-- 
http://reganmian.net/blog -- Random Stuff that Matters
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.p2pu.org/pipermail/p2pu-dev/attachments/20120604/7e1569fe/attachment-0001.html>